Author Topic: Safety at meets  (Read 36524 times)

Offline stevie

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2008, 01:22:56 AM »
Its good that these Questions have been asked, but i hope we don't see people taking things personal, i have stated in another thread, that it would be wrong to tell some body what they can or can't do,

incase confusion sets in, and this is only my oppinion, why don't you all have a meet were representatives from each group come together, and talk, it would be even better if every one that wants too, attend,

i know it might seem like a logistic nightmare, but realy its quite simple, i could and im sure others could supply a venue large enough, and hey,an official bockers meeting,no polotics, just bocktalk,

it would get more attention drawn to the communinity, and people could ask questions, about who, or what, or why, or anything to do with Bocking, it could be where the likes of guid lines are born,or forgoten,etc, etc,

i know there are meets etc, but this would have to be Bock free, a sit down meeting, even with entertainment i could certainly organise that, like a real corporate event, although, bocking could happen afterwards,

again this is just my idea and  oppinion,that we are all entitled to have, and if its a daft idea, at least i have mentioned it.lol.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 01:33:49 AM by stevie »

Offline Becky

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2008, 02:12:26 AM »
The Safety thread wasnt based on anyones meets, it just highlights that we do need to be thinking about safety. And as the IBz was the last meet i guess it made for good recent examples.

I run the EPB gym when Im at home and we take safety just as seriously, and still I broke my leg. Only that example was way more serious and much longer ago, so although it gets mentioned it isnt as relevant an example now. At the time people offered advise, but noone really seemed interested in talking about safety. Now as the community and sport have both grown people are more willing to think about and discuss our safety as bockers.

I know other injuries have been posted on here recently that would add to the need to look at safety both in and out of the gyms - walking into roadsigns anyone?  :biggrin:

I think it just seemed an appropriate time to bring up the whole safety idea, so that everyone shares ideas and points that might have been missed! So if anyone can think of anything thats not already been posted stick it up! Means if someone new finds a gym they will have a list of things available for them to think about, and means that we can check that the gym sessions we run are as safe as they can be. It wont stop all the accidents happening, but hopefully it will stop anyone doing anything too stupid! (we can hope!) :)


@Stevie - its a nice idea, but i think it would limit who would be able to contribute. I doubt many of us could afford to travel to a meeting, especially those not in the UK! Newer bockers who might feel happy to post online might not feel happy talking in a meeting, and younger bockers may not be able to attend if parents need to work. I think due to the wide range of bockers (ability, geographically and age-wise) it will be better to keep the discussion on a forum where everyone can air their views? :)

Offline stevie

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2008, 02:45:04 AM »
I new you'd think it was a daft idea,LoL, just an idea, im just thinking of the bigger picture.

Dark Knight

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2008, 06:34:01 AM »
This topic as been posted on a couple of forums so it already cover most active members.
So an in person meet isn't worth it and would limit those who could go ?

Not every person is/can be a member of a group. I live about 40 miles form any others so most of the time a Tigger and I have to hold myself back ( probably why I'm still not very good ). Any safety tips must be able to include people like me to use not just for large groups/gyms ?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 10:08:38 AM by Dark Knight »

Offline tundraH

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2008, 07:53:31 AM »
I have the answer for all your safety needs....... bubble-wrap
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Offline KentLee

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2008, 08:01:19 AM »
 :banana: hey guys just to say i agree with all that is said about safety, but my injury came from my own stupidity as i should of been resting my leg not trying out the carbon fiber springs and woops tear goes the muscle in my leg lol....  :banana:
Freedom bocking. no ties to any clubs but friends with them all. this is the way forward.....

Offline Nero

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2008, 11:46:58 AM »
Right then, for me this is a more grey area than most who have posted seem to view it, yes i agree that there should be safety at meets, for everyones health we should point out any clear dangers.
but having rules and regulations at meets is only going to slow a lot of progress, im thinkin about our last meet which was in a gym.
Shadon took a p**ser off the double crash matt (two matts up two mats long)landing and still hurt himself, i failed a flip on the gym floor, but these thing will and must be expected to happen, Majority of the sky high guys are the other side of sane,  not that we are unsafe to those around us or ourselfs but we bock with the motto "if you aint falling, you aint pushing yourself".
now a lot of the regulations, as with the association and coaching threads will work for some groups, or some from some groups.
its also i great way to f**k a sport up, give it a governing body and someone at the top who "wants the best for the sport" read that as "want to line his own pockets"
Now this isnt directed at toddy or charlie, when talking about governing bodys its my experience in the thai boxing ring that i draw upon, a young sport, new to the country, that now has no less than 3 governing uk bodys.
the head of each association has his own idea of the direction the sport should be taking, in fact there was one of these people on a show called "kiddie fight club" who had his 7yr old fighting world rules in thai land, thats the head of an association right there, betting on his own child in thai land.
now i have said before in my opinion a governing body is less important than say getting some big comps or displays together, i feel this will draw more people in.
I feel opals pain when you have people who were not even attending the meet questioning the safety of the meet, THATS not good for the group or the meet.
Tundrah said you could wrap yourself in bubblewrap, but for me bocking is one of them sports, you would expect a black eye from being a pro fighter, twisted knees from ski'ing
and i expect to get injurys bocking, as i would imagine twisted ankles are the bane of the freerunners.
on sunday i tried a flip in town, the flips was sound other than the fact i took a huge chunk out of and thought i may have broken my finger, a mid air clash of bocks caused it as i tucked, i taped it up to stop the bleeding and continued bocking.
so although i must do whatevery body else has and say i argee with the initial idea of the thread, i dont like the way its evolving.
brendan seemed to say what im getting at in a much quicker way, but i read this topic last night, but knew if i had typed while under the influence then this would have read at ape spreed.
the one last thought i have on this matter, its not a good one though, but extreme meets, or at least an extreme landing at gym meets, have the newer and learners use big padded hard as nails to actually land on crash mats, while those of us who have no relationship with personnal safety can be the madmen we have been and will continue to be.
(wow i dont think i typed that much in a post here EVER :nana:)

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Offline sprog

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2008, 12:57:37 PM »
its also i great way to f**k a sport up, give it a governing body and someone at the top who "wants the best for the sport" read that as "want to line his own pockets"
Having known Locky for over a year I know this is NOT his intention and never will be. I am also on the team for the planning of the association and our main aim with it is to take bocking mainstream, not make money. By taking it mainstream we can obtain funding which can be instantly put into clubs that are part of the association, to help with increasing safety and creating dedicated teaching/coaching courses. None of the money will go to ourselves or anyone else, it will just go to clubs, and provide funding for events such as capital bocking. Also to your comment about big competitions and displays, this is exactly WHY we need an association, to organise such things and obtain funding for them.

the one last thought i have on this matter, its not a good one though, but extreme meets, or at least an extreme landing at gym meets, have the newer and learners use big padded hard as nails to actually land on crash mats, while those of us who have no relationship with personnal safety can be the madmen we have been and will continue to be.
(wow i dont think i typed that much in a post here EVER :nana:)
We need to set an example to newcomers to the sport though. If they see people better than them not wearing pads they are instantly going to assume it is okay not to, which is not the case. We need to show what is safe and what isn't, and by disagreeing on this we will cause confusion for newcomers as to what is and isn't safe. They will see one club padded up using crashmats and taking it slowly, whilst another club will have no pads and will be moving very fast and not perfecting techniques. I advise everyone to use pads, if you chose not to and get injured it's your own stupid fault so don't come whingeing on the forum is my opinoin (I have seen people do this).

We need to come to a single, unified stance on this otherwise it will cause both confusion and fallings out between clubs, which will have the knock on effect of the association not working to its full potential.

Offline Opal

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2008, 01:23:00 PM »
Just a thought about the "Slide in crash mats". That in itself is a technique that would need to be perfected. Looking at Joe's video, if the mat was pushed in from behind at the last minute (ooh eer Mrs!  ;) ) it could have actually contributed to his injuries. If it was pushed in from the front (in the direction in which he was travelling) it would have been a huge assistance to reduce injury, but it would have been practically impossible to get it under him in time.

It's a great idea and it's got me thinking, but it's not going to be solved easily. Take another look at Joe's crash vid and you'll see what i mean :)

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Offline Becky

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2008, 02:45:09 PM »
Ok, So

So far I think we have established that we would like a list of 'things to think about' and 'suggestions for safety' both in the gym, and out of the gym.

We do not want 'a list of rules and regulations' that we must follow.

We want to keep this on an open forum to allow the widest range of contributions, and we want everyone to be able to have a say.

So rather than arguing over the fact that you may or may not want to be told what to do, can we please continue looking at what we might need to think about in order to reduce the risks of injuring ourselves and the other people at the gym with us (even if you chose not to follow them) :)

The aim of this shouldnt be to make a list of rules that you must follow, but to create a set of helpful guidlines that you can refer to in order to make bocking safer for everyone.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 03:06:19 PM by Becky »

Offline sprog

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2008, 03:20:12 PM »
Just a thought about the "Slide in crash mats". That in itself is a technique that would need to be perfected. Looking at Joe's video, if the mat was pushed in from behind at the last minute (ooh eer Mrs!  ;) ) it could have actually contributed to his injuries. If it was pushed in from the front (in the direction in which he was travelling) it would have been a huge assistance to reduce injury, but it would have been practically impossible to get it under him in time.

It's a great idea and it's got me thinking, but it's not going to be solved easily. Take another look at Joe's crash vid and you'll see what i mean :)
What about from the side? ;)

Offline theonlysilenthunter

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2008, 03:43:10 PM »
Ok well my first thoughts would be to check everyone is wearing appropriate safety equipment, especially if at a Gym and learning new tricks (a helmet should be almost compulsory) Even those people who are confident accidents can happen, even if it's a sign you didn't see coming..... This should be emphasised to the younger generation and especially newbies. At some of the bigger meets i think there should be at least some people as ground crew and first aiders, maybe not all the time but, whilest some others are on bocks. ie whilest having a break maybe just watching out for safety concerns etc.

It might also be an idea to set a guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips etc, and even a set number of successful flips on a trampoline/trampete before attempting it on bocks (helps to direct where you are going to take off and land etc). A guideline like this might slow people down a bit......

Those people with common sense should maybe just keep people aware of the risks, and slow people down a bit, and even stop someone from doing something if they see something which should be altered. Like the IBs meet, they changed the arrangement of the mats only after someone was injured.

I think you'll always get some people falling over, but it's the prevention of injury that's harder because of the variety of environments we bock in.

Offline stevie

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2008, 04:02:15 PM »
I don't want to go on about Joe's fall out of respect for him, so this has nothing to do with what has,  

The tecneque of the push in crash mat is something that could be of help to others, like i said it won't prevent an injury but it could help a softer landing, im sorry if im going on again, i just thought everyone new about it, i will defo try to film on thursday,

it depends on which stunt is performed, as to wher you stand, and the person with the mat has to be strong and alert, with some experience at what is going to happen, talk it thrugh first so that each party no what to expect,then practice at slow safe speed without a full attempt so that the man with the mat knows were he should be for his own safety and the performer,  even have a bail, then attempt,  after the mat is pushed in, normaly from the side, the man with mat can also help to cushion an impact if it goes wrong, again this should be done with someone that understands the move, and the performer must have 100% respect in the man on the ground, and not even have to think that he is there, just consentrate on the move, that is called the buddy buddy system, used by the Army, were two units become one.

Offline Paul-Self

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2008, 05:01:02 PM »
to be honest it was talked about briefly in Joes case but he had done them before and the aim was to back tuck land and then back tuck onto the matt he didnt travel on his first back tuck which didnt help his cause im not trying to justify anything just thought it should be known that he had landed them before straight onto the mat so we didnt really think the mat being chucked in from the side was to important as he had landed them before that day and not had any issues in missing the mats.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 05:05:10 PM by Paul-Self »

Offline stevie

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2008, 05:17:51 PM »
Paul, mate i wasn't talking about that iether, i was asked a qestion about the teqnique, i know without shadow of doubt that joe is more than confident at what he does, and if you read my other posts you'l understand how much respect i have for him, and i sertainly wouldn't dream of trying to tell him or anyone els what to do, at that level, chears, i would only offer my advice if asked for.


Offline Paul-Self

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2008, 05:33:08 PM »
na wernt having ago or anything wasnt aimed at you either it has just been said a lot through this thread by different people and justr thought it needed to be said

Offline toddy

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2008, 07:03:42 PM »
so we all need to know and get conftible at pushing mat's in at the side when some ones if doing a trick. i feel this would be good for me to try and do other tricks i havent got the balls to do yet

Offline Greggles

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2008, 07:14:10 PM »
alltho its a gd idear to push a mat in from the side be being able to do back tucks on the floor it would freak me out if sum 1 push a mat out and would put me off and would flap my arms and would stop the rotation just thort that would b and ishue for some ppl

Offline Nero

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2008, 07:24:45 PM »


It might also be an idea to set a guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips etc, and even a set number of successful flips on a trampoline/trampete
this is the sort of thing i was speaking against, i feel you cannot either judge or enforce what people are doing on there stilts or you will alienate people, the first time i tried a flip was due to the fact i felt ready to try it, i had no crash mat, or list of tricks i had done to make me feel confident in doing it, I WAS CONFIDENT.
now im not saying that i do things the right way, or even in a way that is impossible to damage myself, but i do them my way, when i feel im ready, as should everyone.
this talk of a list of things you should do before you flip to me seems like a good way to fill your head with a load of stuff you shouldn't be thinking about when trying to flip.
Also trampolines may work for some, and not for others, the difference in rotation and weight is immense when you add stilts, so doing it on a trampoline doesnt seem a diffinative way of stoping injury's.
Sprog:  i did state that i was talking neither about Locky or Charlie ( i know neither of them , therefore would not cast there characters in disrepute), but people i have known through my life, a lot of them were starting it for the good of the sport was the point i was making, but it always seems theres cream stuck to the side of the pot with these things.
Talking to my friend about it we realized just how long it took people to listen to skaters in the uk, we were aggressive roller blading back in 95 and its only been the last few years or so that skate parks have started to be built around the place to our knowledge.
I dont think having our own playgrounds and such is going to come from sports grants or governing bodys
its gonna come from bockers sweating and making them their selfs.

i but to try and get back to the topic, i would welcome, as would everyone it seems a list of things for people to think about while at any meet, as long as those of us who do have common sense dont have to adhere to it or be shunned be the community
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 08:49:09 AM by Nero »

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Offline Greggles

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2008, 07:34:03 PM »


It might also be an idea to set a guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips etc, and even a set number of successful flips on a trampoline/trampete
cream stuck to the side of the pot with these things.

hehe i like that expreshtion if funny made me giggle  :thumbs: :haha:

Offline stevie

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2008, 07:50:56 PM »
Just to make more sence of the pushing mat under thing, that is something that works for certain things, ie backflips, and if someone threw a mat under me without warning i would be very upset with them, what i had said was it must be talked thrugh, not a random thing, and this is something that works for us  and some other groups, its only a sugestion that could help, and its nothing new, that was aimed at people that don't know about it, and it only works like i said if two are working as one,

(my quote)again this should be done with someone that understands the move, and the performer must have 100% respect in the man on the ground, and not even have to think that he is there, just consentrate on the move, that is called the buddy buddy system, used by the Army, were two units become one.

Offline Spud

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2008, 07:52:25 PM »


It might also be an idea to set a guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips etc, and even a set number of successful flips on a trampoline/trampete
this is the sort of thing i was speaking against, i feel you cannot either judge or enforce what people are doing on there stilts or you will alienate people, the first time i tried a flip was due to the fact i felt ready to try it, i had no crash mat, or list of tricks i had done to make me feel confident in doing it, I WAS CONFIDENT.
now im not saying that i do things the right way, or even in a way that is impossible to damage myself, but i do them my way, when i feel im ready, as should everyone.
this talk of a list of things you should do before you flip to me seems like a good way to fill your head with a load of stuff you shouldn't be thinking about when trying to flip.


I kinda agree. I think this would make me feel pressured more than if I could do it when I wanted if I was ready. And enforcing that would be crazy and would really I think make some people feel bad. I am not sure what about that idea I really dont like but I like bocking because there is no competition between people other than good stuff and helping each other out and well I dont jump through hoops for tid bits and that would make me feel a bit like that...it could all get very horrible and also being good at some tricks on a list wont improve your safety when trying flips..you will know if you are ready. Doing these tricks wont make you land flips better whn you try. Although there is stupid and for that there is common sense. Most people are big enough and smelly enough to decide for ourselves. Other times there will be  abunch around you to advise you not to it

I dont like what happened with air runners in whatever country it is (austalia I think) It just seems a bit like that. Like karate..yellow, black belts ect..wouldnt ever want it to be like that.

Dark Knight

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2008, 07:55:11 PM »
One thing that you should alway have on you anyway is an ICE contact if someone should need it !

In
Case of
Emergency

Emergency services look for this even on your phone ( simplier than calling MUM !? ).  :-\

Offline stevie

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2008, 08:18:59 PM »
Spud, i also hope it it doesn't go that way, thats why i keep saying that nobody has the right to tell another what they can or can't do, i'v only spoke about experiences in our team, and things that have helped us,

i think Lockys idea of safe conduct for meets would be for his meets, and anybody that wanted to use that same thing, and if it works i'm sure that others would use it too, the way i see it at the moment is just sugestions, i can't see it being more than that,

and your right, nobody wants there head full of stuf when trying something new, but if someone was trying something new, and someone with greater skill was present you would expect them to advise how to do it best with out hurting oneself, and the forums are the highway for information on Bocking, so it won't hurt to have some kind of list of things that have worked for others, not rules, even if its only for new bockers.


Offline Jason

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Re: Safety at meets
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2008, 08:38:54 PM »
Ok the safety Idea is good
The Thou Shalt do (or not do) Is Bad

Ok well my first thoughts would be to check everyone is wearing appropriate safety equipment, especially if at a Gym and learning new tricks (a helmet should be almost compulsory)  

It might also be an idea to set a guideline of tricks that should be perfected before attempting flips etc, and even a set number of successful flips on a trampoline/trampete before attempting it on bocks (helps to direct where you are going to take off and land etc). A guideline like this might slow people down a bit......


Please don't take this the wrong way silenthunter but you have bought up a couple of points I must comment on

Helmets I wore one at the start I (luckily) didn't wear it when I tried to flip onto mats
The general consensus of people that watched the video was that the extra weight and height of a hat would have made a broken neck more likely in the type of accident I had and that 3 mats are suficient to stop concussion  :biggrin:

Flips on Trampolines really   ???
 I have yet to see a trampoline for sale to the public in England that does not have a Bl**dy great sign sewen onto it saying something along the lines of (Do not under any circumstances attempt any type of flip backwards or forwards on this or any trampoline unless you want a broken neck)

Now I will learn to flip on my trampoline and probably have an imprint of said sign on my forehead when I visit the hospital  :haha:

Because I personally feel it is the safest way (so I agree with your thoughts silenthunter)

Now best will in the world telling someone to learn to flip on a trampoline is telling them to Ignore the warnings the governing body has deemed to be necessary (easy to fall foul of this saftey thing isn't it )

I think that Wristies are needed just to take bocks out of the box they come in  :biggrin: but I would not insist on anyone over legal age wear them because that is their right and we live in a democracy

Over the meets I have attended a few lads have given me quite advice on how to do things safely and I am greatful (you know who you are  :thumbs:) This for me is the best way to learn (for others it is different ) but I saw the same thing happening to Clive at sundays meet (by the same lads) and he has come away with lots of new skills and moves and lots of confidence

 Jason  :Hoofies2: