Author Topic: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May  (Read 34838 times)

Offline Jason

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #75 on: May 17, 2008, 12:00:22 AM »
Just to put my two penneths worth in (or fivers worth in this case :biggrin:)

I am normally fairly flush when it comes to money (the wife holds the purse strings thank god  :biggrin:)

Now I have no objection to paying whatever the going cost is and that should be set by the club holding the meet and if what is spare goes to something for the club or sport so be it

That is my opinion and at my time of life £5 is not a lot but I can also understand that a lot of you folks are students or just starting out in jobs and money can get tight so for a lot of people the cost of traveling to a meet and then £5 on top would be the decider as to which meets you attend

Now the Essex Gym cost £1 due to the high attendance (at first I was told £2 and when lots turned up they dropped it to £1) I do understand why the Invicta Bockerz are charging but think you are going to drive a lot of the less wealthy Bockers away from gym meets (and a lot of the really skillfull Bockers are in that catagory)

So if moneys short and you can save £4 I think I can guess where all the bockers will be

The result could be that people won't come, after all it costs a fair bit to travel now days, I know it will cost Clive and I £30 in fuel so the JJ's must be paying a lot to just to get there and then to be hit like this do you think they will come again ?

Dosen't really matter to me what is charged on the day I know I will enjoy it but it would be nice if it happened again and judging by the amount of feeling against the set fee I am seeing here I think I am in the minority (opinion wise)

Jason  :Hoofies2:

Offline Opal

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #76 on: May 17, 2008, 02:20:21 AM »
Ok first of all the £5 set fee was my idea.

Why?

Because we're a small group, & hiring our gym for 3 hours costs 6 people £5.10 each. It's not the cheapest gym but it's close to most of the IBz and it is a nice facility.

So, I've basically been subsidising the IBz so that we can have these gym meets, and no im not incredibly out of pocket, a couple of pounds at the most across all the sessions we've had thus far, but nonetheless it has required a subsidy.

The IBz agreed that, should our numbers increase, we would keep the amount that we usually have to pay the same, and any extra revenue earned from the gyms would go towards actively promoting the sport (through local promotion of IBz, etc).

Of course, the members of any other groups have not made the same agreements/commitments that we have to having the IBz gym. However if we hadn't done so we wouldn't have it and therefore wouldn't have a venue for this meet. That should be appreciated.

On the other side of the coin, why should you subsidise or otherwise help give revenue to a group that you do not belong to? Not for any other reasons than A). you want to use their facility or B). you agree with what the revenue is going to be used for (i.e. promotion of an otherwise niche sport, although part of me thinks that most participants actually prefer it that way).

Now, I'm open to lowering the charge based upon more attendees. Great, because I have to pay less myself too.

It will be a flat rate of £2. If 16 or more people turn up we've covered costs. If not then it looks like I'm subsidising again. At no time has it ever been anyone's intention to fleece anyone else; the demanding tone taken by some of the posters was neither necessary nor appreciated.

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Offline KentLee

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2008, 07:49:15 AM »
 :banana:  in regards to what you have said opel i never wanted to be part of the funding account thing that was set by lets say the moderators of the group.... its a lot of profit made if all payed the 5bills so i think all people are saying is, its done diffrently in the ibz as at there gym meets they split the hole cost of the gym equaly and fairly with no set price its worked out on how many turn out that way there is no subsadising needed by any one person.....

that said dont think i can make it as i had a car accident yesterday but i will keep you guys posted and let you all know....
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Offline Carma

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #78 on: May 17, 2008, 10:24:42 AM »
To be honest, I was always a little concerned about the larger scale funding of the IBz, and always took a back stand on it. But I do want to add that Opal does an amazing job every week, and much to my dismay, has to pay FAR too much out of his own pocket. I still think everyone should pay their cut of the gym and no way should Opal pay for any of it himself. I threw the whole 'all attendees are to pay £5' thing merely to judge the reactions of people, and I knew these problem would occur which is why I was always concerned about the set fee's. I do say now however, that everyone is to pay their percentage of the cost of the gym, and Opal shall not be paying for any of it out of his own pocket (something I have always hating him doing). We (the moderators) shall re-address this issue as every meet is likely that someone from outside the IBz will attend and I always have very much an all or nothing stance.

Hope that cleared things up for everyone. Also, a little more faith from our own existing members would be nice, considering we was going to outline our plans to you all this weekend.

-Carma

Offline Charlie B

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #79 on: May 17, 2008, 11:21:41 AM »
As someone from outside the group looking in could i make a few observations

In most other sports club members pay an annual or monthly subscription and in most cases then pay for the facility when used.

A number of you talk about "profit" as a very dirty word. However when the event makes a "loss" you allow someone else to pay the bill.

Most events (and clubs) to run long term need to make more money than the costs. This allows the development of a contingency fund which ensures no one is out of pocket if numbers are low for a few weeks. Also a contingency fund can be used to provide money to buy extra equipment, and used when making funding bids.

If you are going to bid for money via Awards4All or Sports match you must have money in the bank to support your ideas.

Finally a not for profit organisation can and should make money on what it does, the only difference is that the "profit" is re-invested in what the organisation does, not given as a dividend to share holders.

Grow old disgracefully

Offline Wally247

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #80 on: May 17, 2008, 11:26:58 AM »
Smile Carma/Opal  ;D ;D ;D

i didnt realise, Opal, that you were out of pocket on these gym meets.... that shouldnt be happening....  :-\

Carma your doing a great job at organising the IBz keep up the good work...  :biggrin: seeing as without you probs nothing would happen im glad you do it


I cant wait to here the oultines of the plans this tomorow... also good point Charlie B

ps. sorry if i sounded a bit p**sy in some other posts... exam stress.

pps looking forward to seeing you all on sunday

 :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
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Offline Carma

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #81 on: May 17, 2008, 11:45:20 AM »
Thank you all for understanding this, I guess we are all still getting to grips with problems and peoples situations. We never do anything for ourselves, and still are a not-for-profit organisation. Seeing as ALL profit goes back into the group, I wouldn't have it ANY OTHER way. All the organisers have put it money and funding from their own pockets without ever expecting it back, but I feel we don't need to anymore. We will discuss our ideas with the IBz tomorrow, seeing as most of you will be there.

Can't wait, and a special thank you to the IBz for their patients and understanding on the situation. And of course to the other groups.

-Carma (The Bocking Rocker)

Offline Spud

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2008, 11:47:46 AM »
Well said Charlie B,
As far as I know the IBs are trying to raise money for things for the IBs. I think transport is one of the things on the list. I would be happy at this beiing they way things run. £5 is a small price to pay and you will see the benifits in the future... I go to a circus thing on wed. You pay a couple of quid every week and it is usally an hour. If enough people come to cover the cost of more time there then thats what they do. Any other spare cash goes in a fund which pays for the quiet weeks and also to pay for things that the users want. I love how this works and I dont like seeing people pocketing my money.

Opal. You really shouldnt be paying for things out of your pocket its unfair. And look at it from this way. If you keep allowing this to happen it will be more of a struggle to get the IBs standing on there own feet.

However hard it is you need to get things working right from the start or it gets harder in the long run. Each person should be paying their fair share of the cost and shouldnt mind either. It will benifit you all in long run and sooner you are standing on your own feet the sooner the sport can develop and equipment and things will be better for you.

The idea needs to be self sufficiant and although the meets are good fun...I hope you guys see where I am coming from. I cant expalin well but our old flying club tresurer paid insurance out of his own pocket and it caused us big problems after. We thought we were doing well but really we wernt and after. It was a struggle. Now we make a small amount of profit and have had parachutes repaired and all sorts and we had fun raising money on the way. Things like having BBQs at £3 a head raised a small amount every time.

I hope I dont sound like an idiot.

 :spudT:

Offline webmaster

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2008, 12:53:12 PM »
There’s a lot of points raised here but this is the way I see it...

Firstly if the Invicta’s are raising funds for various ventures and all the IBz are happy to pay a little extra to fund these projects then fair enough, I think it’s a great way to raise the little extra to cover for the times where funds are short and things need doing etc...

I know of some of the plans that the IB’z are hoping to go ahead with, and in the long run is going to help the IBz as a whole group and set the foundations for you to become stronger, I’ve heard no plans from any of the IBz which are solely for the benefit of one or two people, all the plans are for you all.

The biggest problem I see with the group is actually something that would go away with a little communication. You are all adults, and if you are having discussions then why not involve all your members, sound out ideas when you are together in person or all together in a chat room or msn convo when all members can participate, and in this sort of situation when it’s just the IBz you should all speak freely, raise your concerns, disagree, maybe even agree on a few things ;)  Every group has arguments & disagreements but they are not carried out on the forums for all to hear, I’ve seen more of this from the IBz than any other group and it does you guys no good at all. If you have a problem with any member within the group or you don’t like what’s said a pm or email or even a phone call in my opinion is better than undermining each other publically.

With regards to this gym meet, let’s face it, it’s a special one. A lot of people are making the effort to come a long long way, and it’s not going to happen often. I personally think if you guys are inviting a group along then splitting the cost is acceptable but if it was my group I wouldn’t charge them at all, considering the time and effort they are already putting in to come along. When you first suggested the sum of a fiver each Carma, and when Lee replied with the following:
erm for 3 hours and 15 people it’s not gonna cost £5 if we split it 15 ways it’s not gonna be that much..
I honestly thought it was just a few wires crossed and it would be split equally!

If other groups were joining in all the time and agree to put in a little extra then fair enough but imo it shouldn’t be made mandatory, as like Jason said it would just put people off coming to your gym when other gyms are cheaper.

Offline Opal

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #84 on: May 17, 2008, 04:01:45 PM »
Well there are a number of points that have been bought up here, and I might be so bold as to say that some of our "Communication" problems have stemmed from personal disputes within the group. This does have to stop, especially in public forums. Charlie B hit the nail on the head with his post, and everyone in every group who are trying to actively take things forwards should heed what he has had to say.

Of course we're a not for profit group. I've been on to a subtle loser from the start, but that's not what it's all about. But as has been stated before, without a little profit, we aren't going to be able to invest in things to make the sport bigger and better (Gym equipment and advertising, etc), and this is all we're trying to do for the benefit of everyone.

I think that, other groups coming to our gym meets is a beneficial step forward in itself, which is why I was so willing to drop the price (i.e. their payment is in time and petrol to come along, and it makes our numbers look bigger automatically). So perhaps a two tier system whereby our visitors pay £2 and standard members pay the standard rate (£5, as after all, it's the standard members that will benefit more often from gym equipment, etc). When the numbers increase, the price decreases to £1 for visitors just like EBs.

I haven't had a problem with the subsidy. Like I said before, we wouldn't have the gym if not, and it's only been pennies, so no big deal. I will still pay the usual rate (£5) so that we do generate some revenue for the things we are trying to achieve (without alienating anyone).

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Offline KentLee

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #85 on: May 17, 2008, 05:49:43 PM »
 :banana: i just wonna say cant wait i am coming now as my poorly car should make it and i cant wait letrs didcuss this more on the day as my head hurts trying to read all the losg posts i have a short attention span afterall..... :thumbs: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
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Offline Paul-Self

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #86 on: May 17, 2008, 06:31:00 PM »
can i ask what equipment the gym has carl says im coming 2 lol

Offline Trixter

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #87 on: May 17, 2008, 07:29:07 PM »
i have one question what does your group need a fund for exactly surely we all promote the sport just by bocking what exactly do you need to pay out for surly your not advertising as the companys do that one there own and we do it by recomending sites and places to buy from, i cant see what reason a group would need to fund there group and i can easyily say that it is the first time i have heard of a group need a bank account and fund unless they have been doing paid event work would like to know why so maybe i can cause a big row between the EAs with the same reason

Offline carlgreen

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #88 on: May 17, 2008, 08:36:16 PM »
yh what equipment is there as i dnt wanna be flipping all the time i want stuff to vault jump over jump onto and stuff liek that




Offline Jelly

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #89 on: May 17, 2008, 08:45:46 PM »
Hey, im definitely coming down tomorrow. Im getting off gillingham station, where abouts is the gym from there? jelly x

Offline toddy

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2008, 08:50:52 PM »
just down the high street

and sorry i dont know what we can use to jump over etc, opal is the best person to aswer that.

Offline sprog

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2008, 08:53:12 PM »
Hey, im definitely coming down tomorrow. Im getting off gillingham station, where abouts is the gym from there? jelly x
YAY JELLY!
Haven't seen you since CB :(

Offline Jelly

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2008, 09:23:34 PM »
Are you coming too ash?? Yay!!! Has anyone got a number i can call? just in case i get lost! jelly x

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #93 on: May 17, 2008, 09:25:45 PM »
Are you coming too ash?? Yay!!! Has anyone got a number i can call? just in case i get lost! jelly x
You can have my number !? I'm not going but you can still have my number  :biggrin:

Offline Joe Legg

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #94 on: May 17, 2008, 09:43:43 PM »
Are you coming too ash?? Yay!!! Has anyone got a number i can call? just in case i get lost! jelly x

yeah we just found out the jj mobil will be passing sprogs place of stay and can pick him
 up on the way.

so im getting everything ready for tomorrow as ill be leaving my houese about 7/7.30am. and the people in the jj mobil are

rancher (driver)
colin (navagator)
'q' (umm postman)
sprog (bock first aid)

and we should hit the gym about 12/12.30 hopfully.

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Offline Jason

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #95 on: May 17, 2008, 10:19:20 PM »
Well done Opal for sorting the Gym and I can understand now why you set the £5 fee for your regular meets and the drop for special meets is a good idea but I think if you extended it to your own members you would still cover your costs this time as it seems like a lot of people are coming   :thumbs:

When I go to anything like this I am more than happy to pay the fee as I then know it will be available next time

May we have many more meets with the Invicta Bockerz  :banana: :banana: :thumbs:

See you all tomorrow  :banana:

Jason  :Hoofies2:

Offline Paul-Self

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #96 on: May 17, 2008, 10:31:31 PM »
awesome look forward to seeing you all again / meeting some of ya 

Offline Wally247

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #97 on: May 17, 2008, 10:53:26 PM »
AHHHHHHHHHHHH the rents are being a tad anoying and imprisoning me

so i cant come to the first half of hte meet but will be at the gym at 4

looking forward tomeeting you all

 :biggrin:  :biggrin:  :biggrin:

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Offline KentLee

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #98 on: May 18, 2008, 07:31:40 AM »
 :banana: hey guys just to say not long now till gym meetcant wait to meet you all. and jelly iv pm'd you my number give me a txt about what time your train is and ill swing by and pick you up.. asfor every one else safe journey and watch out for dutch VOLVO's LOL
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Offline tundraH

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Re: 3rd IBz Gym Session - Gillingham - Sunday 18th May
« Reply #99 on: May 18, 2008, 07:47:45 AM »
I'm just leaving now.  See you all in sunny, it had better be sunny, Kent.  :P
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